A Conversation Between a Conservative and a Liberal About Healthcare

"So I had thirty minutes to kill before meeting a customer for lunch today. I decided to stop at my favorite fair trade (burnt) coffee shop Starbucks to catch up on emails and research Tennessee Department of Transportation Stimulus money spent (for work actually) and had a, how should I say, enlightening conversation with a seventy-year old gentlemen (prompted by him) while waiting. Let me say before I review the highlights of this conversation, I have been struggling with the Healthcare debate for weeks. As a Christian, I am called to help people. As a Conservative, I am called to defend our constitution. It may seem like a contradiction. Christian-Conservative? I mean really, how can you be a nice, giving Christian and at the same time wish people would do for themselves without mooching off of you? A quandry to say the least! Anyway, here are some of the highlights from the conversation with my new acquaintance, I’ll call Larry the Liberal, to protect his identity": Me: Larry, I am fairly politically involved and have struggled mightily with the whole healthcare debate...do you have an opinion on the matter (this was an 8 minute answer)? Larry: Yes, I do...Our healthcare is second rate in this country and is twice as expensive as other countries according to the world health organization. It is a travesty we don’t have care for everyone. All of these people, these right-wing people, they just want to leave things alone because it doesn’t affect their world. I am seventy years old. I used to live in the corporate world you may live in now but I’m here to tell you, when that job stops, all that is left is Medicare and Medicaid. They are good, but they could be a lot better. Me: So what would you do to fix things? Larry: For one just pass the damn thing. Obama has a majority and can pass it now without the Republicans. Me: I agree, he does. Larry: Do you know how many bankruptcies in this country are caused by medical bills? Me: No Larry: (quoted whatever the number was) Me: I had no idea? Larry: Well, that is unneccesary, what other country in the world has their citizens go bankrupt because they can’t pay for surgery? Me: I don’t know of any, I think we are the only country still operating without the government. Larry: Well don’t you think something has to be done? Me: I work for a big corportation, my insurance is great but I do understand some people have bad coverage and some don’t have any at all...but I struggle with the government taking money from me to pay for others, its not constitituional. Larry: (he nows sees which side I am on and is clearly shocked!!) What the hell are you talking about constitutional, where do you people get off on saying such things. You look like a smart kid, but you are ignorant, don’t you read? Don’t you watch the news? Me: Yes. I would consider myself a student of American history, the Constitution, the Federalist papers, and a close follower of current events. I was government school educated like everyone else. Larry: Well how can you call yourself a Constitutional student when you don’t see that it is the right of American’s to have health care? Me: If you are referring to the 10th amendment, where it refers to “the general welfare”, I could see a person stretch and claim that but I have never read anything about health care in it? Larry: So you think the constituition is some perfect document? Do realize we have had amendments? Do you realize slavery used to be ok? Me: Yes I have read where it has changed and no I don’t agree with slavery at all, you can’t say freedom for all and not give it to all. That was a clear error. Larry: Look at these damn assault rifles...what business do people have buying assault rifles? The NRA lobby is huge...they hide behind the 2nd amendment. They should be banned. Me: I don’t think there is a law against lobbying do you? Larry: No...but this whole thing you right wingers keep bringing up about Obama violating the constitution is a lie, I’m sorry. You guys don’t take the time to read the document you defend. Obama is a good man trying to save this country from the terrible shape Bush left us in. That war based on false information... Me: Larry, Obama is very far left. I know you don’t believe it but Bush was a very, very moderate man leaning left on multiple issues, especially spending. Obama won because we had no choice. It was pick between a liberal with Obama or pick a democrat with McCain. McCain would have been Bush heavy. Larry: What are you talking about? Obama is saving this country son. Look, I don’t want to seem partisan, I used to be a Republican, but changed to Democrat after Bush. I loved Reagan and Clinton. Let me ask you something personal...are you a Christian? Me: Yes Larry: Well how can you not give to your fellow man? Haven’t you read that you are your brothers keeper? Do do unto others. To render to Caesar what is his and to God what is his? You aren’t being a very good Christian if all you think about is keeping your money? Me: I give, but I don’t believe every person should have to give socially to everyone else. It is unconstitutional for one, and two, where do you stop? I pay around 44% in taxes when you combine state, local, and federal. Larry: Well look at Warren Buffett...do you know what he pays in tax? Me: No Larry: 15% Do you think that is fair? 15%? You know what he used to pay? 25%! Do you know why? Because Bush cut capital gains tax by 10% and his wealth is from stock dividends so he gets off scott-free. Me: So do you think it should be raised back? Larry: Of course! Me: Why not raise it to 50% and really get him? Larry: No....that would be too much? Me: Why? Larry: It just is, it would stifle investing. Me: I just think it is weird that from 1776 to 1913 our country had a top tax bracket of 7%, in 1960 the top bracket was 91%, and today is 36.5% and soon to be 39.5%. How in the world did the country survive on that low a tax rate? Larry: If you are saying a graduated tax isn’t constitutional, you are crazy! We have to tax rich people more to pay, they own all of the wealth. Me: So why not move the top bracket back to 91%? Larry: I don’t know...but don’t you agree we need to raise taxes? Medicare is broke. Social security is nearly broke and we have no health care? Me: Sure, why not...would another 10% from me do it? Larry: I don’t know? I think the government should be able to take whatever it needs to take care of its people plain and simple. Me: So why not open a government grocery store where everything is free and just let people take what they want? Larry: We don’t need to do that, groceries aren’t the same as health care. Me: So, if gas gets to be $5.00 per gallon, should the government take over the gas business? Larry: I have lived overseas, our gas here is too low? Me: What do you mean? Larry: It should be $5.00 per gallon to get some of the cars off the road. Have you seen the urban sprawl in our city? It is ridiculous. Me: We pay 20% right now in gas tax are you saying raise it another $2.50? Larry: Where do you come up with 20%? Me: Gas is $2.39....45 cents or so is what the government gets via state and federal taxes....isn’t that around 20%? Larry: Yes...but we pay less than everyone in the world...don’t you see? We need to get these big vehicles off the road. Me: Like that one (pointing at my Yukon XL)? Larry: Yes...that is ridiculous! Me: Hmmm...that is what I drive...are you telling me my government should tell me what I can and can’t drive? Larry: No...no...no...I’m not saying that, I’m just saying you should have to pay more to drive that. Me: Why? Larry: Because of the gas mileage. Me: So, if you don’t like something or the government doesn’t, then they should just be able to ban it. Larry: Well, you couldn’t do that, you just tax it heavily and then it will go away. Me: Yeah, like Cigars! I just got a 53% tax increase on that item. Larry: You should pay more, it is bad for your health. I think we should tax soda and fatty foods also...getting back to your health care questions...that is a major issue...people’s health. Me: Yes, I have heard about taxing cokes and fatty foods...I could care less...I don’t drink cokes and mostly eat healthy foods. Larry: See...so what do you care? Me: So are you telling me that people don’t have the right to be fat? Or drink cokes? Larry: They can, it should just cost more to do it. Me: And I thought you guys were the party of freedom.. Me: Why don't we just have one state, say California have $5 gas, $2.50 coke cans, free health care, and ban fatty foods period? Larry: Because nobody would live there...they would all drive across state lines...you have to have the entire country participate. Me: I know you support gay rights correct? Larry: Of course, what business do we have in peoples bedrooms? Larry: Look...I have to go. Me: Why...what’s the hurry? Larry: I have to meet my wife. Me: I feel like I have offended you? Larry: No...I love to talk politics...really I have to go. That my friends is a perfect example of what Liberals truly believe *Written by J.S